this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2025
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I was going to post this as a comment, but it was in an anarchism community, and I figured some sections of it might be unacceptable there. Hence, new post.

Here's a guideline of how to interact with cops. There are more or less three modes, depending on your read of the situation. Cops are not always the enemy or the maniacal whole-job-is-making-evil thugs that Lemmy sometimes makes them out to be. It really is bad for people to get mugged or their cars broken into, and they're the solution our society has come up with to minimize the amount of it that happens. It's not always a bad thing.

If you find yourself talking to the cops, there are more or less three ways:

  • They're there to solve a real problem. Someone's car got broken into, someone got beat up. Just talk with them. Tell them what you know, help them figure out the situation. In almost all of the US, their effect on the problem will be positive, and it'll be a lot more positive if they have a good grasp of what happened. If, in your opinion, the person they're trying to catch really did do something that warrants a law enforcement response, then give them a hand. Use your judgement as to whether that's warranted of course, and your impression of the justice level in your local area, since it varies quite a lot in the US.
  • They're there for you. Shut the fuck up. Don't say a goddamned word. It doesn't even matter if you didn't do it. Don't explain. Shut the fuck up. Be polite, obey lawful orders, definitely don't fight them or you'll get a felony and might also get injured or worse, but tell them that if you're suspected of a crime, then you'd like to talk to a lawyer, and you have nothing else to say. And then, shut the fuck up and cooperate. Maybe you want to go as far as "Were you shoplifting?" "What? No. That wasn't me, man." But any further explanation than that, just leave it alone. Definitely don't make something up on the spot, to make yourself sound innocent, if you did do it. For the love of God, don't do that.
  • They're there for someone who didn't do anything wrong. The reason for this post is, anything and everything with ICE and immigration falls into this category. Some things with local cops will, also. Just be unhelpful and simple. No, I didn't see anything. I don't know. I'm not sure. Be vague. Don't get creative, keep it simple, don't refuse to give your ID or otherwise antagonize them or commit minor crimes of obstruction, but just do your best imitation of someone who just fell from the sky. "So you've NEVER MET your neighbor. Your neighbor across the hall." "Nope." "Are you sure?" "Yeah, I don't know." "I mean, she gave us your name, she said she'd talked to you." "I don't know, I don't remember that." Don't embellish. Don't explain why. Just calmly let the silence linger and the pressure build up, without adding extra words.

Like I said, everything with ICE or other immigration authorities falls into the third category. No exceptions. Everything. The same applies with any type of federal law enforcement, I suspect, for the next few years.

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[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

This is bad advice. In all cases, dont talk to them.

[–] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 points 22 minutes ago

In the USA your advice is bad advice. You are in some situations obligated to answer questions. “Im not sure” and “I don’t know/recall” are perfectly valid answers

[–] Naughty_not_bad@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 10 hours ago

The third option is our German chancellor (Olaf Scholz). "I dont know where these Millions went." "I don't remember anything about that incident." "I don't recall sending or receiving these messages." "That evidence? No I don't remember this and I refuse to talk about it" If you ask any uncomfortable questions about corruption he just stays silent.

[–] morgan_423@lemmy.world 28 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Also, never answer the question, "Do you know why I pulled you over?" with anything that sounds like an admission. They're fishing and looking to have you confess to a traffic violation.

The honest answer is "No, I'm not sure why you pulled me over," because it's true. There are a million motivations they might have come up with to pull you over, and you're neither psychic or telepathic.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 85 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (12 children)

Maybe you want to go as far as “Were you shoplifting?” “What? No. That wasn’t me, man.” ... do your best imitation of someone who just fell from the sky. “So you’ve NEVER MET your neighbor. Your neighbor across the hall.” “Nope.” “Are you sure?” “Yeah, I don’t know.”

Wrong.

Don't tell the cops "I don't know" or "I didn't see anything," or anything of that ilk. Don't try to plead innocence. Don't try to use logic. It will only ever work against you, and it will never work in your favor. Always always always always.

Just tell them you exercise your right to be silent. Over and over again, if necessary. That is all you say. Be a broken record. There is no situation where you are actually obligated (in the US) to answer any type of questions for any type of law enforcement, at any time, for any reason, ever. That's all you need to tell them. You don't answer questions. You don't answer why you don't answer questions.

This is because you can also be prosecuted for lying to them, and their grounds for accusing you of lying can be pretty shaky but you still might get convicted. You can't be prosecuted for saying nothing.

Note that this will not prevent them from lying to you, which is legal, and making spurious threats of arrest or similar to attempt to intimidate you into complying. Be aware that this is automatically bullshit. At worst the can hold you for up to 48 hours (-ish, state laws vary on that point somewhat) without charging you with anything and even if they do, you still don't have to say anything to them.

If this happens, lawyer up immediately. You can sue them afterwards if it comes about that they violated any of your civil rights in the process.

In light of all of the above, I don't deal with the police at all.

Name and if necessary, driver's license. That's it. That's all I'm legally obligated to provide in my state, and even then only in specific circumstances. If they're on my actual property they can pack sand; No warrant, interaction. I won't talk to them, I won't even answer the door. If they want to try to bust in illegally, what happens after that is on them.

I will further never, ever call the police for any reason. They simply can't be trusted. If I have a problem with someone or something, I will solve it myself. The cops in my area have near as makes no difference to a 0% clearance rate for nuisance crimes, assault/battery, thefts, and burglaries anyway. Unless you need a report for insurance purposes it's useless, and at that rate I'll have my attorney call them on my behalf. They are not in the business of helping you. So don't even expect that they will.

TL;DR: Don't talk to the police.

[–] Branch_Ranch@lemmy.world 32 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

"What day is it? IT'S SHUT THE FUCK UP FRIDAY!"

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 6 points 19 hours ago

I am so happy to see this. I posted one of the videos below.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 5 points 19 hours ago

It is always Friday.

[–] zuch0698o@lemmy.world 12 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

This is correct answer, never speak to the police. They can and will use anything you say and try to make you guilty of SOMETHING.

[–] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 6 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

...And even if you are not the perpetrator, that doesn't matter. The police are pressured to arrest somebody. At the end of the day it really doesn't matter to them who it is, and the perp got a way while in the meantime you're standing right here. It's much easier to harass you.

Do you have warrants? Are you sure? Do you have parking tickets? Is your name similar to someone else they want for something else? Do they smell weed? Are you black? Etc., etc., etc.

It's not worth it. Don't interact.

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[–] Limonene@lemmy.world 8 points 21 hours ago

I agree with this. In the US you can only be compelled to answer questions if you are given immunity, which will almost never happen.

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[–] mdd@lemm.ee 16 points 18 hours ago
[–] foggy@lemmy.world 46 points 21 hours ago (5 children)
[–] Dagwood222@lemm.ee 21 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (5 children)

Not everyone has the privilege of being able to afford a lawyer and/or time off from work. There are plenty of jobs that won't let you interview if you've been arrested, even without a conviction.

If the police want to make your life miserable, it's very easy for them to do so with no consequences. Also, when you piss off a cop, they are probably going to take it out on the next person they interact with.

On the other hand, if you follow the advice posted, you're not going to give up any of your rights.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 17 points 21 hours ago

Yeah. They have a lot of leeway in how they deal with you, which is why I don't recommend "I don't answer questions" or being needlessly dickish to them. Some things, you need to draw the line, because getting arrested because they're pissed, and then released, is a hell of a lot better than saying some stuff which can get used later on to put you away on some real charges. But in general, there's no reason to make it a painful interaction, because they can also make it a painful interaction for you, in turn.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 6 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

This is true, although you have a constitutional right to a lawyer even if you have no money.

Either way, if they want to detain and question you, that's arrest - You're going to jail, you'll need to get bail which is going to be somewhere between $100 and $20,000, probably, otherwise you're not getting out of jail.

And nothing you say to a cop from the initial contact to the day you walk out a free person is going to help you. The best it can possibly do is not make anything worse, and that's unlikely.

The reason you have to have a lawyer is that the lawyer is supposed to know what they're allowed to ask you and what to do to get you out. (Some lawyers aren't as good as others, but any honest lawyer knows these basics. - or they can ask their office.)

Now, there are simple things you can do like; be cool, polite, possibly de-escalate the situation with some empathy, but if they start asking you more than one or two questions, you need to forget everything that's ever happened ever, immediatley. You do not remember. After the third question, just shut up and shrug.

You're not going to talk your way out of it, and they'll take any opportunity to take any sound you've uttered and turn it into some other charge against you - most people get accused of five to twenty charges for the same thing so the DA can look effective and make the total jail time seem as scary as possible.

If you gave them nothing, and they have nothing, you are in the best position possible.

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[–] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 17 hours ago (5 children)

This is absolutely shit advice.

You are not obligated to talk to the police. The 25 word script:

  • “Why did you pull me over?”
  • “I’m not discussing my day.
  • “Am I being detained or am I free to go?”

If you are being detained, invoke the 5th amendment.

[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

You dont have to evoke the 5th amendment. Just dont say anything. You have the right to be silent even without saying so.

[–] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 41 minutes ago (1 children)
[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 1 points 6 minutes ago* (last edited 5 minutes ago)

Of course you can. We're not talking about being subpoenaed for a deposition. Were talking about some armed thug approaching you on the street. You're under no obligation to talk to them.

[–] essteeyou@lemmy.world 15 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

"Why did you pull me over?"

"Sir, we're here because your house was robbed."

"I'm not discussing my day"

"So you can't tell me what was stolen and don't want a police report for your insurance?"

"Am I being detained or am I free to go?"

"You're in your house, sir."

[–] Skates@feddit.nl 0 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

"Why did you pull me over?"

"Sir, we're here because your house was robbed."

Fake af. When your house is robbed, you can go fuck yourself - your shit is gone unless you've got GPS trackers in it. Here's a more likely scenario:

"Why did you pull me over?"

"4 years ago you filed a report that your house was robbed. This is now becoming a problem, as people have noticed we do nothing for society, and your report is adding to that statistic. Would you like to close it, or shall we go ahead and process that broken taillight?"

"what broken taillight?"

"down on the ground! I said down!" <sounds of gunshots hitting car, sounds of body hitting steering wheel, sounds of prolonged honking, sounds of thin blue line erections, sounds of coke being sprinkled>

[–] JonsJava@lemmy.world 1 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

"I never consent to searches"

"I don't answer questions. Am I detained, or am I free to leave?"

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 6 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

invoke the 5th amendment.

"I Invoke the 5th!"

"Sir, in Canada we don't call them amendments. And the 5th means you have to answer but you get immunity. So keep talking."

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 5 points 15 hours ago

You joke, but there are sovereign citizen groups in Australia who try to quote US laws and documents to the cops as their argument for why the laws don't apply to them.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 5 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (6 children)

I literally posted a link to a video which recommends your 25-word script, down below.

Not every interaction with the police is a traffic stop. Honestly, most traffic stops involve citations that are so trivial that it barely matters what you do, as long as you can manage not to get yanked out of the car for refusing to ID or something. This is talking about a lot more serious situations that don't have a one-size-fits-all answer to them.

Edit: Added "most." Sometimes, depending on what you've got in the car, the 25-word script is absolutely pretty fucking critical to stick to.

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[–] Nollij@sopuli.xyz 29 points 20 hours ago

There's a really big problem with this guidance. You may be in category 2 (i.e. a suspect) and not know it. They may also retroactively place you in that category, and everything you said can now be incriminating evidence

[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 20 hours ago (13 children)

Bad advice

Don’t talk to cops unless you are legally obligated to do so. Depending on the state you may have to identify yourself, and in some locations and contexts provide identification. You should know your local laws. In my state it is not required even if detained although in practice refusal to identify just means you aren’t going home for a looooong time. You do have to give your license if you’re stopped while driving, of course, but you do not have to answer any other questions other than signing the citation. The aclu has a website clearly outlining what you are required to do in each state including wallet sized cards with the information

Real police advice: if they’re giving you shit shut the fuck up. If they’re arresting you just go with it. You aren’t going to win. They’re going to call in 900 back up units and 2 helicopters with thermal imaging and a tank to track you because they’re basically an army now. The more you resist the more likely you die and become a sad headline that people post and forget about in 20 minutes. They aren’t trained to take you down safely. They aren’t trained to de escalate. They aren’t trained to control their anger. They will often get furious if you resist their authority and take out that aggression on you with extreme violence. They will slam you to the ground, choke you, punch you, beat you with their knock off tonfa, taze you repeatedly, and restrain you in ways that are dangerous and restrict your breathing. They will outright ignore you if you plead for help or become unresponsive. They will let you die, wait 5-10 minutes despite being on camera, then call for medical who will take another 10 minutes to respond to your long dead corpse that could’ve possibly been resuscitated 15 minutes ago if they hadn’t stood around doing nothing like ghouls. They have 0 serious repercussions for this behavior, at worst they’ll get shuffled around

Let them arrest you, shut the fuck up, and fight it in court. Unfortunately you will need resources to do this and pretty substantial ones. I just hired a lawyer to process documents for a subpoena against a client in my healthcare practice. It was a fairly simple case of document review and it cost $2300. Probably took him 45 minutes of actual work, if that. The system is unfair and rigged against you.

Real real police advice as a result: avoid them at all costs.

[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 1 points 1 hour ago

In the US you're not legally obliged to talk to cops. Ever. Have a lawyer do it.

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[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 12 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (2 children)

I had police called on me once. I was working for a homeowner while they were out of the country, and one of their neighbors called the police to report me being in the homeowners backyard.

I was watering their plants, by the way. But their neighbors might not have known or seen that since the backyard is behind the house and a fence.

Anyways, police showed up and took a few steps up the driveway to the side of the house where I was working and asked me if I was the homeowner. I politely said "No, I am not the homeowner." The officer gave me a look, to which I elaborated "I work for the homeowner, they are currently on vacation in [country name], and they asked me to water their plants for them." I was holding the water hose in my hand and the plants were wet on the side of the house he could see.

He was also polite, asked me for my ID which I presented, he took a picture of it on his phone and then took some notes. He asked me to hang out around the front of the home a bit because I think he may have been relaying information to dispatch, but then he came back and shook my hand and said "Thank you for being cooperative, I was on a call with the dispatch who told me the person who reported you said the homeowner was on vacation in [country name]. I don't want to take any more of your time, but hope you have a nice day and I already let dispatch know if anyone else calls about it to let them know you work for the homeowner." And that was that.

Be polite and respectful. Don't lie or be untruthful. You might not like the police, but they are still humans, treat them like humans. Purposefully making their job harder will never, ever end well for you.

Every citizen can choose for themselves if they wish to remain silent, and if you choose to do so you must say specifically that you exercise your right to remain silent. If you have to speak to the police for whatever reason after you said you exercise your right to remain silent, you are legally obligated to say you will continue to exercise your right to remain silent if you choose to continue to do so.

[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 1 points 1 hour ago

Oof you just got your identity stolen. Nice.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 6 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I have had exactly this type of experience, of being calm and straight with the cops, and they clearly really appreciate it in exactly the way you described because so much of their day consists of people who are acting like maniacs or lying through their teeth.

The one part I would take some exception to is "don't be untruthful." If you're guilty, then, I mean, definitely don't lie to make yourself innocent, but there's a big myth that cops like to promulgate that when you're guilty then you just need to be honest and they'll be able to help you out. This is wrong, wrong, wronger than wrong. Just ask for a lawyer.

But yes, being cordial with them while still protecting your rights will mean they'll generally do what they can to help you out in turn, and make your interaction a lot more better, absolutely.

[–] RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 3 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

If you are guilty of a crime, then certainly being truthful and cooperative with police can lead the Judge to be more lenient with sentencing than if you had been a problem. It also can directly lead to you being treated less roughly (or "normally") by police, and less additional charges ontop of your existing charge. Obviously it depends on the severity of the crime, but it is not entirely a myth. Judges usually have within their discretion a range of time for sentencing, and I have seen multiple times where a Judge takes the Defendant's cooperation and truthfulness into account, giving the lowest possible sentencing.

My personal opinion is to just be truthful and own your actions. Be accountable. If you broke the law you broke the law, you know? Yes, a lawyer can help lower your sentence, and its really never advisable to not speak to a lawyer, but its just my opinion of "If you cannot do the time, then do not do the crime." Yes, sometimes following the law can be a hassle, and yes there are laws I think are stupid and I do not agree with. But they are still the laws of the land and if I want to live here, then I am obligated to follow the law to the best of my ability.

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE BY THE WAY

Be polite, be respectful. Kinda like bees. If you don't mess with them, usually the bees aren't going to mess with you. If you don't give police a reason to interact with you, unless you were a witness to a crime or something they will usually leave you alone, where I live at least. I am over 30 and that is the only interaction with police I have ever had where I would consider myself as a suspect. Also, I feel obligated to mention that I am a Mexican American, and a legal citizen.

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[–] wahfflez@lemmy.world 15 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

sticking to “am i being detained” and “lawyer” works wonders got out a fucked situation with the first. Genuinely the biggest gang in the US, treat them as such

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[–] DrFistington@lemmy.world 6 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

Something for everyone: keep your license and registration/insurance in your sun visor, keep a state ID on you for ID purposes. Also keep your hands on the wheel until they are at the window. That and keeping the information in the sun visor ensure that your hands are in plain view the entire time. You don't have to suddenly start moving and digging around in a dark compartment. Police officers are trained to keep their eyes on your hands and if they can't see your hands they get nervous and that's when bad police officers start pulling guns and shooting people. Sounds stupid but it's what they're trained to do. Following this simple and straightforward advice will immediately de-escalate and improve your interaction with anybody pulling you over. I've actually had officers mention it after a stop and thank me for keeping my hands in plain view etc. The vast majority are just trying to do their job, and this advice makes it easier for them, makes them less fearful, makes them less prone to do something stupid.

I actually got that advice in a very nice concealed carry class I went to. A large portion of the multi-day class went over interactions with law enforcements what to do what not to do etc.

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